Seth Payne

In my previous post I discussed my general impressions of Matt Slick and CARM. (Incidentally, if you would like to read an “insiders” perspective on the goings-on at CARM, read here and here.) Within the context of that discussion I briefly mentioned the CARM discussion forums. These forums are heavily moderated and cover a wide range of topics including atheism, evolution, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, etc…

The forum to discuss Mormonism is filed under the “Cults/Groups” section and, as does every message board, has a common group of posters who rant about the evils of Mormonism. One such poster goes by the name Theo1689 – which I suppose is a reference to the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. According to his board profile, Theo is 46, lives in Toronto, and is a teacher by trade. He’s also very nasty to Mormons who attempt to defend their faith on CARM.

Theo has posted what can be considered a long-running challenge to new Mormon visitors to CARM. It begins:

Greetings, and welcome to CARM!

Ok. So far so good. I feel welcome. Maybe Theo is interesting in having a constructive dialogue.

I have been discussing Mormonism with Mormons for about 15 years now, and have compiled a list of very foundational and basic questions that no Mormon has been able to answer Biblically.

So it sounds like Theo is potentially familiar with Mormon doctrine and dogma if he has spent 15 years “discussing” it. Although, I suspect that such discussions have been less about pursuing mutual understanding and more about scoring rhetorical and theological points. Also, it is apparent that Theo is very confident in his set of questions as “no Mormon has been able to answer [these questions] Biblically” – at least to Theo’s satisfaction. Of course, what does “Biblically” mean? I have seen many divergent theological positions argued from the same Biblical texts so I have to assume that when Theo says “Biblically”, what he really means is “Theo’s narrow Calvinist interpretation of select Biblical passages.”

I welcome any Mormon to try to answer these questions by addressing the passages cited, rather than ignoring them and trying to go to “preferred” proof-texts which do nothing but dodge the issue.

I have no problem in addressing the specific passages Theo presents. However, I do have a problem doing so sans the context of other Biblical passages. Theo has essentially asked Mormons to come play his game, in his house, with his restrictions. It is easy to win a debate if you can dictate to your opponent what evidence he/she may present.

Of course, my current (and very confident) view is that Mormons cannot answer these questions, which is why they refuse to even address them. However, I continue to be open to listen to responses by Mormons to these passages and issues.

One must wonder what the point of Theo’s questioning must be if he is so confident that his brilliant questions will go unanswered.

Please note, I am not asking, “Why do Mormons believe what they do?”, since most of us already know the answer to that, and reject the authority given. The point of these questions is that they show the Bible contradicting Mormon teachings, and so I am looking for Mormons (eg. I_am_Mormon) to address and explain these passages in contrast to his beliefs.

Ah. Now I get it. Theo is not really interested in Mormons explaining their beliefs from a Biblical standpoint. Rather, he simply wants to demonstrate the supposed superiority of his Calvinist theology by using his so-called “proof-texts.”

Theo then offers 6 questions in the form: Why do you Mormons believe X, the Bible clearly teaches Y. Followed of course by a list of Biblical verses which, according to Theo, “prove” position Y.

After listing his questions, Theo states:

Mormons generally respond to these questions by ignoring the passages in question and going to their own rehearsed “proof-texts”. I hope this is not the tack taken, as that implies a rejection of those Scriptures in question.

I look forward to a thoughtful response.

As a heterodox and heteroprax Mormon, but one who is reasonably well-versed in Mormon theology and dogma and has had some training in Biblical exegesis (I am, of course, in no way a Biblical scholar) I think it will be an interesting exercise to address Theo’s questions.

Stay tuned….